In Episode 2 of Let's Talk Leadership, Matthew and Sharon discuss the importance of exercise and healthy living for leaders.

About Sharon:

Sharon is an Exercise Physiologist and did her PhD research studying the impact of exercise and training on the immune system. She is a Senior Associate at the Center for Creative Leadership and worked for the US Olympic Committee, testing athletes from various sports & providing feedback to coaches and athletes.

Transcript:

Matthew Hunter (00:01):

Okay. Hi and welcome to our conversations today. Joining me is Sharon McDowell Larsen. Sharon is currently living in the Rockies in Colorado, but was originally from South Africa, has lived in Europe, lived in Central America, and as I say, has ended up now in Colorado. Sharon did her masters and doctorate at Lincoln, Nebraska, and interestingly her doctorate was all to do with a very, very in-the-moment topic and that was the... It was looking at exercise and the immune system, which is what we're going to talk about today, but in the context of leadership.

Matthew Hunter (00:47):

Now, Sharon spent quite a lot of time with elite athletes with the USA, the American Olympic Association, and more recently she's been working at the Center for Creative Leadership, where she's been taking all of her knowledge about performance, about being an elite athlete and helping elite leaders, what she calls corporate athletes. Now other than all of that, Sharon is also a professional mountain biker. It's great, Sharon-

Matthew Hunter (01:17):

... That you've come to join us today and have a chat. Tell us a little bit about what you mean by corporate athlete.

Sharon McDowell Larsen (01:25):

Yeah, yeah. Executives I think are similar to athletes in that they're very high performing creatures, and they put a lot of pressure on themselves to do well and to perform well. I think the demands and stresses of leadership are also unique. They can be quite strenuous in a sense, but probably more from a cognitive sense than a physical sense. In that regard, I think there's some similarities there.

Matthew Hunter (01:52):

What are some of the things when you working... You work with a lot of senior leaders, and obviously we'd like to talk about younger people as well because they're facing or they will be facing as leaders all of the issues that we're looking at the moment, having to deal with COVID, global warming, the environment. What have you noticed with the leaders that you work with at the moment about their cognitive function and either what they do or don't do in terms of the wellbeing of their health and nutrition?

Sharon McDowell Larsen (02:23):

Yeah, I actually just submitted an article for publication looking at the health behaviors and exercise behaviors of senior leaders. They're actually quite good in some ways of taking care of themselves. Many of them exercise. Over 50% are actually quite consistent exercisers. From a cognitive perspective, of course that's very, very important because we know that exercise is like fertilizer for the brain, it really fuels the brain and keeps it running nicely.

Sharon McDowell Larsen (02:54):

One of the things I don't do well is eat well, so that's a large area of focus that we talk about in our sessions with executives. Particularly as it has to do with, again, brain function because what we eat affects how our brain works just as much as how we exercise and so that's a critical thing. The other thing where they tend to fall short of course is sleep, and a lot of long hours, a lot of disruptive travel and so that tends to fall a little bit short. Also, they're quite good at not smoking. We don't see a lot of senior executives who smoke, and they don't tend to drink a lot of alcohol, which I think makes sense because you have a challenging job and so you can't afford to overindulge.

Matthew Hunter (03:42):

You and I both do a lot of traveling or have done, so what specifically do you notice there? Because I know you and I meet people on planes, we meet people on programs, and I'm just amazed at the amount of distances up until obviously the lockdown that people have been traveling. What were your sort of observations or thoughts there?

Sharon McDowell Larsen (04:04):

Yeah, that's often, I think, a big challenge for leaders to stay healthy, and that's probably one of the biggest things that they tell us is being on the road so much, it's more difficult to eat healthy, it's more difficult to get consistent sleep. For some it's easier to exercise. For others, it isn't. I think that during times on the road is that's when those health behaviors become substantially more important to focus on. Even though it is more challenging, that's when it becomes more important to engage in those behaviors for sure.

Matthew Hunter (04:43):

Yeah. If you're advising or working with say people who are starting off their leadership careers, so people who maybe or in leadership roles, but perhaps not at the very top in either schools or colleges or businesses, what would be some of the things that you'd want to be talking to them about?

Sharon McDowell Larsen (05:02):

Oh yeah, I think that when you're young... They say youth is wasted on the young, and so sometimes we can get away with perhaps not getting enough sleep or eating well or you have more energy anyways. What we see, particularly from a cognitive function thing, and I think this is really key as you mature into your role and mature as a leader, is that the more you can engage in healthy behaviors, that the bigger effect that's going to have later on in life.

Sharon McDowell Larsen (05:49):

When you look at all the research on brain function, cognitive health, the advice is to start healthy behaviors now, because if you wait until your fifties and sixties then it might already be too late. Some of those longterm brain health concerns like dementia actually start in the twenties and thirties, and so the time to start engaging in health behaviors is in your twenties and thirties, even though it might not feel as important to have as much of an impact in terms of how you feel.

Matthew Hunter (06:28):

Then I was listening to a webinar last week by Bob Johansen at the Institute for the Future. He was talking about the leadership competencies, if you like, all the skills going forth, and one of the things he talked about was that he felt that leaders will need to be super fit. I'm just interested in... You're someone who's super fit. Again, thinking back on starting early, starting young, thinking about one's fitness, what do we really need to be doing? We may not be superheroes and certainly we're not talking about heroic leadership, but what are we going to need to be doing differently or doing more of?

Sharon McDowell Larsen (07:11):

Yeah. He talks about this idea of routine health versus extreme health, and I think most leaders that we see do have routine health. You have to have a baseline level of good health in order to be able to do the job, obviously, but he's saying that leaders of the future need to have more than just routine health, which I would define as the absence of disease. You're not sick, therefore you are healthy.

Sharon McDowell Larsen (07:37):

He's saying that they're going to need to be extremely healthy, so extreme health I think has two sides to it. I think it suggests more energy, more vim, vigor and vitality, so to speak as you get older. But it also suggests that we reduce, significantly reduce, our risk for diseases of aging and diseases of accumulation, like heart disease and diabetes and obesity and Alzheimer's disease. These are the conditions that plague us right now.

Sharon McDowell Larsen (08:09):

Again, the health behaviors that we engage in our twenties and thirties is going to have a significant impact as to whether we contract those conditions down the road. Right now, interestingly enough, this whole situation with COVID-19 has sort of brought this to the fore, because if you look at data out of Italy and data out of the US, what we're finding is that the people who suffer the most are people who have these underlining comorbidities or underlying conditions. These are for the most part preventable and even in some cases reversible.

Sharon McDowell Larsen (08:45):

In order to achieve this good health, extreme health sounds like a very high bar. It sounds very attractive. Who doesn't want to have extreme health? But it does sound like a high bar, but I think it's very, very achievable. I've seen people turn their health around and achieve this just by engaging in simple lifestyle behaviors. There's nothing sexy to this. There's no body hacks or super foods. It's just, if you look at the research, engaging in not smoking, regular consistent exercise, eating a health-promoting diet.

Sharon McDowell Larsen (09:19):

In the research, the diet has to do with eating more whole [inaudible 00:09:23] foods, fewer processed foods, fewer animal foods and not smoking and moderating alcohol intake, so those are the behaviors. If you want to be healthy, you have to engage in healthy behaviors, and so it's quite simple, but I think that in the world that we live in, sometimes it's very counter to supporting these behaviors. It can be a challenge, but it's absolutely doable and critical, I think, even more so in this day and age in this climate.

Matthew Hunter (09:57):

You're not doing anything, start doing it basically.

Sharon McDowell Larsen (10:00):

Exactly, yeah. If you just sort of do status quo, and aging is not kind to anybody, but I think that you don't... I think as a culture often, particularly in Western cultures, we tend to fear the aging process. If you engage in these healthy behaviors, you can embrace the aging process. There's lots of benefits to being older, perspective and wisdom and all of these things and knowledge, but unless we stay healthy as we get older, it is a thing to be feared.

Matthew Hunter (10:36):

If you were sitting in front of some, I don't know, young leaders in the late twenties, early thirties all bright, well-educated, got good jobs, and you were looking at them and saying, "Well, what can I say to them that might make the difference?" Between just being a really good leader, but they get to a point where maybe they're not the brightest spark in the room or whatever. What would you be saying to them? What would advice would you be giving them? What two or three things might you share with them?

Sharon McDowell Larsen (11:11):

Yeah. Actually I was just in that situation in London right before this whole stuff broke, talking to a group of young people. I think everybody wants to be healthy. Nobody wants to be sick, and so everybody has a keen interest in this. But again, it's very simple, exercise to get fit and be fit, and it doesn't take a lot. It's more about consistency, doing stuff every day, moving more, getting outside, getting some dose of nature as well is good, eating a more plant based, whole foods plant-based diet and being consistent on your sleep.

Sharon McDowell Larsen (11:52):

I think if your sleep is messed up, that's a good place to start is fix the sleep thing first, and what's cool is that these are all interconnected. When we don't sleep well, we're less likely to eat well and we less likely to exercise, so they all... You can create a downward spiral or a positive upwards spiral in terms of some of these behaviors. Sometimes when you change one thing, like your diet or you asleep, then positively impacts another aspect of your life.

Sharon McDowell Larsen (12:26):

It just goes back to lifestyle behaviors and being... A lot of these are just common sense as well. We kind of know this stuff, but I think we get a lot of mixed messages that says otherwise, and here's the secret way to weight loss. It's not about weight loss, it's not about losing weight. It's about engaging in healthy behaviors for the sake of improved health, and if weight loss happens, great. If it doesn't, you're still better off.

Matthew Hunter (12:53):

Coming full circle back to what you've spent a lot of time doing and looking at, particularly at cognitive function, and then when those things aren't in place, people looking after themselves, not being super duper athletes but just taking care of themselves, getting plenty of sleep, eating well and healthily. When not doing that, what have you noticed about cognitive function later in life and particularly when it comes to decision making, they're in difficult situations in organizations and companies facing challenges. Anything that you've noticed, if those sorts of things aren't part of someone's makeup, aren't part of someone's lifestyle?

Sharon McDowell Larsen (13:35):

Yeah, it affects it in so many different ways. If you look at the research on exercise and cognitive function, it affects our ability to process information very quickly, and that's a key thing in this environment where so much is coming at us. It affects our ability to be creative and think outside the box. It affects our ability to be quick and think on our feet and food does as well.

Sharon McDowell Larsen (14:02):

If you look at, if you eat a lot of fat, for example, in your diet, all of a sudden that slows down the blood flow. There's something called blood clumping, where the red blood cells start clumping together, and the research shows you just can't think and function as well cognitively, and so you really suffer as a result. I've probably seen more people say when they've made the change, they'll say things like, "I feel like a fog is lifted from my brain."

Matthew Hunter (14:36):

Interestingly.

Sharon McDowell Larsen (14:36):

I feel like they can think so much more quickly and so much more clear. I notice things. I had one person say, it's like all of a sudden things started to come in more focused, to better focus for them cognitively. These are just what I hear from hear back from executives that have changed their diets and lifestyles and started to exercise and things like that. It's noticeable. People notice it.

Matthew Hunter (15:03):

It's really important, particularly given what we're facing at the moment, and what we're going to face coming out of this. There'll be lots and lots of [inaudible 00:15:12] having to make really tough decisions and presumably the fitter and healthier they are, the better those decisions are going to be.

Sharon McDowell Larsen (15:20):

Yeah. That's one of the hopes for a positive outcome from this situation is that there will be a greater focus on how we can be healthier in a general sense, not just in terms of fighting this virus, but just overall, because it does lessen the risk for sure.

Matthew Hunter (15:43):

Sharon, it's been great talking to you. Thanks so much for all your insights. As always, it's a joy because we've worked together on occasions. Anyway, so what have you got planned for the next few days?

Sharon McDowell Larsen (15:56):

We're actually visiting Bend, Oregon, so we're going to go and mountain bike the trails as much as possible and get away. We live in Breckenridge, Colorado, which still has two feet of snow, so we wanted to get on some dirt and run some trails and mountain bike and enjoy the outdoors.

Matthew Hunter (16:14):

Great. Well, have a super time and thank you very much indeed. Cheers, bye-bye.

Sharon McDowell Larsen (16:20):

[crosstalk 00:16:20] my pleasure. Bye-bye.